Our Universe: Anne Nikitin & Jessica Jones
CineConcerts was very fortunate to speak with the composer duo behind Netflix’s new documentary Our Universe, Anne Nikitin & Jessica Jones!
Composer Jessica Jones
Composer Anne Nikitin
CineConcerts (CC): How did you each of you get started in film music?
Jessica Jones (JJ): I started when I was much younger writing songs, singing and writing lyrics. And then I think as the time went on, I realized I was just writing less and less words and more and more instrumental music. And I grew up playing the violin. So, I started writing stuff for my own violin and for piano myself. And then it grew quite organically from that. I went to film school and did a master's, so I did a lot of scoring there. But yeah, it came out of a love of just sitting down on my own and making music.
Anne Nikitin (AN): Very similar to Jess, but I don't have the vocal chops that she does, but I also just started writing ridiculous songs and then wanting to be in a band and all of that. And then when I realized I wasn't really cut out for performing and I just loved orchestral music. I had an amazing teacher in high school called Andrew Wright, Mr. Wright. And he actually hired a contemporary music composer called Vanessa Lann, who I didn't appreciate at the time, having a female composer as my teacher and mentor, teaching contemporary music and all the amazing history of music, avantegard music, and then getting us to write pieces of music every week. I didn't I didn't appreciate how instrumental that would be to my love of what I do now. And then I had a eureka moment at that time when I watched the movie, The Piano.
JJ: Yeah, that was a big moment for me!
AN: It was the first time I went, “Oh, my God, that's something that I'd like to do.”
JJ: Yeah, that's such a seminal moment. I remember learning how to play that one, it's so gorgeous.
AN: Probably like you, Jess, I was so used to watching amazing John Williams movies and loving the music and thinking that's unattainable and that's not something that I would be good at or could do or want to do. And then listening to Michael Nyman’s score and going, “Oh, that's the kind of music I like and sort of music I like to write.” Eureka moment where I thought, “That's what I want to do.” And then I spoke to my composition teacher and she said, Yeah, go and go and study composition and you know, all the power to you, go for it!
So, I went to composition film school.
CC: Jessica, was there a composer for you that similarly sparked your interest? Was it Michael Nyman or was it somebody else?
JJ: All the kind of classic, I mean, people like Thomas Newman. He just did his own thing so beautifully. And Rachel Portman as well. I think that it's so amazing now as a woman that there's so many more women doing this. I think at that age it felt like there was like one or two. And then meeting Anne ten or so years ago and I started working [together].
CC: How did you guys meet and what led you two to working together?
JJ: We met up and we had a coffee. I thought you were so cool. I was so nervous and then I think I did some vocals for you and so arranging for you and we kind of just started working together from there. I mean, Anne’s just been an amazing person in my life really, and I just love getting to work with her. It's the best.
CC: Anne you had a fan!
AN: I had a fan because, you know, I got an email from somebody at BAFTA saying, oh, there’s this amazing young composer called Jessica Jones and she really wants to meet another working female composer. And I said I’ll meet her. I listened to her music because I do get emails, I'm sure you do, Jess, from young people wanting to kind of send their reels to you. And anyway, there was something about Jessica's music that was great. And we met and we just clicked, didn't we?
JJ: Yeah, we got on well and I think our writing styles, it feels like we work in a similar way. So, it always felt like, it doesn't ever feel like it gets to sort of stressful or well like we've got a nice vibe.
CC: As a musician, an artist, it's hard to find somebody that has that same language or that you can easily work with without having gears grind together. I mean, sometimes working styles don't match. So, it seems like that's very fluid with you both.
AN: Absolutely. I think, also, we have similar personalities. It's like you said, you approach things in a very similar way. And actually, when I'm working with Jess I feel a lot less stressed out by projects and deadlines. She’s just so stress free. Totally dependable as well. I know that she's going to deliver the goods and she's just made my life easier, sort of having her around.
And such good fun as well. I feel we've got this friendship now that's kind of blossomed from the music.
CC: It's got to be so exciting to be female composers in this industry. Can you talk a little bit about that and what your experience has been like on that front?
JJ: Yeah. I mean, I think it's definitely changing for the better, I think. People are more aware of how, I mean it's still the percentage is still quite low I think, in terms of big films. But it just feels like there's been a shift in that way. And there’s that phrase, “if you can't see it, you can't be it” and I think you need to see someone who you could be like. You could grow up and be that person. And I think that's really, really, really important. So, to just have more representation means you're going to have more people feeling empowered to go and study composition and be composers.
AN: No, absolutely. I mean, for me, I was always the only female composer in the classroom and in my youth group. And I was questioned why. I think role models are incredibly important. And I think I probably had my composition teacher, Vanessa Lann, who was my role models subliminally. You know, I didn't realize how important that was. And I think sometimes when it first started happening that people were interested in female composers and suddenly, I was being told they're interested in the female composers thinking, well, I didn't want to get a job just because I'm female.
On one hand, I appreciate it. We do need to start getting more women on board. Absolutely. On the other hand, I thought, I don't want to be hired just for that reason. And I do feel it needs to start at grassroots level. You know, you need to get girls looking out and saying, oh, look, there's a woman doing it.
JJ: I remember even sort of saying I wanted to go and do composing and everyone around…because it just wasn't really a thing. People would say maybe you should go and do this instead. I think not having a lot of other women doing it makes people think, oh god, well, is that even a thing you can go do?
CC: There's over an hour of music for Our Universe. How did you get involved in this project?
AN: Well, we both worked for the director, one of the main directors. Well, there was three, so the director of block one, Stephen Cooter, and we had both worked for him independently on different projects. And so, he brought us on board and we started working with him and the editor for quite a while.
It was just a really lovely gang and we sort of discussed ideas and we talked a lot about what we wanted to see, how we wanted to voice it, and we'd come up with this idea of using vocals to sort of personify mother universe. In the story the universe is calling to the animals. And, you know, it's how the universe has informed life on Earth, basically, and affects the behavior of all of these animals. So, we wanted to have a voice for this call, this sort of pull. And we loved the sound of the Bulgarian choir, Bulgarian women's choir. It's just beautiful, ethereal, ancient, powerful resonance to their voices.
JJ: They just felt so timeless, didn't they? Yeah, they felt so perfect.
CC: How do you compose to something that big, like the universe? Were you seeing any visuals or did you have an idea of these themes in your mind? What is the composing process like between you both?
JJ: I think, as Anne saying, that there were these cool ideas and we did write them off picture initially at the very front. So very simple vocal motifs. And then I think as we started getting given cuts, we were trying them on the picture, kind of orchestrating around them and using that. I think it was really important trying to find a connecting thread between animals and space because it obviously goes from nature to space. So, you kind of need the music to tie that together.
AN: And each episode has its own identity. So, each episode focuses on one animal or animal family. So, the directors wanted a certain theme for each of these animals. But then as Jess said, having this underlying theme that's threaded throughout the episodes so that the audience is familiar with what they're hearing.
CC: What is that underlying theme?
AN: It's really the voices of these women. We wrote something called “The Call” very early on, which is just sort of like a voice calling, and developing that. And we thought we'll use that for every episode whenever an animal's being sort of summoned or looking at the stars, and we'll use that and thread it through.
CC: So, the vocals are the central element throughout the entire score?
JJ: Yeah, we actually recorded the vocals on one of the earliest sessions and then a lot of the later cues we were kind of taking the vocals stem and then composing something completely different around it, so it would fit a different episode, but it's still got that underlying motif from earlier on.
CC: How did you compose for animals and think of themes for these different species?
JJ: We're both quite similar, we're quite emotional. I feel like you just have to watch the little chimps going around and something just comes to you, you know?
AN: We were given the episode so we were watching them and so that's easier that way and then of course collaborating with the directors and what they wanted for the animals. For the elephants, for example, they also wanted there to be an idea of water running through that episode. So, there was sort of a theme for the elephants, but with that quest for water.
CC: Did you experiment with anything on this that you hadn’t before? Like a specific instrument? Or anything that surprised you musically?
JJ: Maybe a couple of things. The one that springs to mind, I suppose, working with the choir and that you can't replicate that in midi. What felt new for me was the kind of pleasant surprise of how different it feels in the room to what you've had. And sometimes with orchestral midi you can kind of get it quite close. I think just coming in and being quite open to something new on the day felt quite new and interesting, exciting to work that way.
And then there was the prog rock.
AN: We had to write some prog rock music for the turtle episode.
JJ: It's just awesome.
CC: What inspired that specific genre for the turtles?
AN: It was the editor’s idea. He played some prog rock and said “Can you guys do something along this line?” Always say yes.
We didn't want it to sound out of character, you know, with the rest of the show so we definitely merged the prog rock vibe with the orchestra. So that was something quite new because I didn't think we’ve done that before.
CC: Do you go your separate ways and sketch out things or are you both in the studio at the same time sketching it out on piano together?
JJ: We don't sit in the same room, but we definitely use each other's ideas in a big way to sort of inform what we're writing. So, for example, if I was to write a little motif, then I would try and adapt that or change the harmony underneath it or take it somewhere else if it's a different animal or I think it goes very fluid in that sort of sense.
AN: Yeah. And vice versa. And I think that's what's so brilliant about working together is because Jess might take something that I've written, like a little phrase and then just take it in this completely different direction I wouldn't for that. And I'm like, “Oh my God, I wish I'd thought of that.”
CC: It seems like you elevate each other in different ways.
AN: It's funny, you write things that you wouldn't have thought of. Yeah, working that way is just so fun.
JJ: It's good to just have someone to bounce ideas off as well, and to just check that you're not going completely mad with what you have there.
CC: Morgan Freeman narrates over your music. But for a project like this, you’ve sunk your heart into your music but it almost becomes its own entity after it’s been edited and has had effects and sound design added. What is that experience like, watching the final product, as a composer?
AN: I think it's exciting. I mean, when Jess and I both heard Morgan Freeman's music on for the first time. I think we were just so giddy with excitement. I can't believe it.
JJ: We don't hear him until literally the very last thing. I mean, I don't think we heard it till the wrap party, even. It's always the last thing that goes on. So, you're always working with the temp VO. “Oh, my God, this is amazing.”
AN: It was great. And then you realize this is why you do it. Because it all comes together, the beautiful images, Morgan Freeman, the editing sounds, everything coming together. And then there's your music sitting there and it's the relationship with everything else.
CC: It seems like your music does come in front and center in this show.
AN: No, totally. I think that's the beauty of nature programs, you get to really write big pieces and long pieces, you know. It's really pleasurable for a composer to write.
JJ: It all mixes so beautifully. I was watching the first episode and the way it blends with the sound design, I think the music comes through very well, but then the sound design also kind of comes through in its moments. We're so happy with how it all comes together because sometimes I suppose the music can sit quite low.
CC: Are there any tracks that you’re particularly proud of or want audiences to listen for?
AN: I really liked the pre-title. It's very, very, very opening of the entire series on cheetahs and starts with Jessica's beautiful vocal.
CC: You're the vocalist?
JJ: And I'm on the very start. Then it goes into the incredible choir, of course.
AN: But it starts with Jess setting up this beautiful, ethereal moment, and then it goes into the Bulgarian women's choir, which is, amazing, pulsing and exciting. And then the titles come in and then Morgan Freeman's voice. That was lovely.
CC: And what about you, Jessica?
JJ: There's some gorgeous, some of the space moments and cheetahs are really worth just keeping an ear out for. The Sun is one of my favorite bits, the choir really comes into its own in that sequence. I've got a soft spot for, I think it’s the last episode with all the penguins. We love the penguin. We loved doing that moment. So that was a real joy to do.
CC: Well, I am so excited to follow both of your careers. Anything else that you’re working on together that you can talk about?
AN: Yeah, we are working on something, a series, it's in very early stages.